Kosovo

[Zephyrus]

Has anyone been watching the news lately? Looks like the situation in Kosovo has started to flare up again recently...

http://news.excite.com/news/ap/010310/08/int-balkans-fighting

I find the whole thing very ironic actually! Two years ago, NATO fought an air campaign against the forces of Yugoslavia while helping the KLA (Kosovo Liberation Army) and all the refugees...now, looks like the tables have turned again.

KLA rebels have crossed the border into the 3-mile demiliterized buffer zone into Serbia, and have seized a lot of territory. At the same time, they are attacking Macedonian troops at the border between Kosovo and Macedonia (who's population is more than 25% Albanian)...Macedonia is asking NATO for help in the matter, to put up a buffer zone around their border as well, and to help stop the KLA rebel fighters.

In response, NATO has allowed Yugoslav forces into much of the buffer zone to "curb weapons smuggling". They have also deployed more troops in Kosovo to help control the rebels. There have been several skirmishes between NATO troops and the rebels, where there were some casualties (on both sides).

I find it very ironic that two governments that were at war yesterday are now common allies against a different enemy (which was friendly before). THis situation has a great potential to escalate into another Balkan war...

What do you think?

[Mickyhoo]

More irony is that Macedonia took IN the Albanian refugees from the Ethnic cleansing.

[keithster]

I guess I'm not surprised by this. That area has been constantly at war for about 650 years or so. NATO was arrogant or naive thinking that they could suddenly change hearts that have been hardened over generations.

[Mickyhoo]

well in the 70's and 80's there was peace in Yugoslavia. That is why this round that started in the late 80's, early 90's in the Bosnia area took everyone by surprise. People who were neighbors were suddenly enemies again. This was prompted by "leaders" who wanted to stir up old angers for thier own gain. Now the pain is fresh and new again and will take alot more than weapons to stop.

[keithster]

Wasn't there relative peace during the Soviet Union because all the ethnic groups had a common enemy? And then once the Soviet Union was gone, all the pent up hatred that was handed down from generation to generation exploded again?

[Mickyhoo]

I am not really sure.. as I was only 13 in 1980.

but a few years ago I worked with a Muslim from Bosnia (male) of conscription age.. who's family had sent him to the US. I am basing most of my opinions on what he told me. He did not understand why the people he was friends with only a few years ago were now enemies. His sister had been raped and mutilated and left to die naked in a field, by a group of men led by a former neighbor, of whom they were friends with they thought. They had even had cookouts with some of them. He also could not wait to get back to get revenge for his sister, who was a young teen at the time. She lived afterwards, but never spoke a word again, and later committed suicide.

He also talked of the beauty of the Olympics that were held in Sareveo (sp) and of the beauty of his country. I can still see the tears coming down his face as he told me of his country. He was 18 and had always known ethnic peace until this all broke out.He could not remember ever even having an arguement over religion until the ancient wounds were opened about 8 yrs ago(?). I cannot remember his name now, but I will never forget his story.

So I will not understand this... ever.

And I hope and pray that he NEVER makes it back over there. He was a kind, sweet, caring young man. I want him to live long enough to learn to forgive. If he can ever do that. He was the one who found his sister, and he saw the men leaving the field. He saw them laughing and heard them talking and boasting about what they had done. He hid until they passed. I think he was about 16-17 at the time.

And we complain about the traffic.

We feel threatened and angry that people disagree with our religion.

I consider myself a Christian, but after what the Christains in Bosnia did to the Muslims in the name of Christ, I am ashamed. I am not saying it was not done by the Muslims to the Christains, but *I* met the other side and heard his story.

[keithster]

It wasn't just the Christians. The media did a pretty lop-sided job of reporting. From what I've been able to gather, both sides were guilty of atrosities.

I've never understood the ethnic hatred. I can intellectually see the reasons, but emotionally, it just doesn't register.

[Mickyhoo]

I know it wasn't... I even said I did,, I just said that the one I had KNOWN was Muslim. And that his story was horrific. And he was not lying. You could see it in his eyes.

[keithster]

You certainly did mention the other side. I'm sorry I didn't make it clear I noticed that. :)

It did touch a bit of a hot button because I thought the reporting of Kosovo was so awful.

[Mickyhoo]

Kosovo was definatly unevenly covered.

But in the Bosnia area, the muslims did get the worst end of the stick. For one thing, they were easier targets for some of it. It was easier to stir up the anti-Muslim hatred in the beginning, just as the Anti-Jew hatred was easier to stir up in the beginning of WW2.

But by time it got to Kosovo, it was more ethnic than religious differances. Different hatreds to stir up.

The ones who START it do not do it for any religion. They do it for personal gain. They just use religion/ethnic lines to cause problems.

Like if someone in the U.S. wanted to get a war started he would do it along racial lines, no matter how he felt. He would just choose which ever side he thought would win and get them against the other side.

[keithster]

Originally posted by Mickyhoo
The ones who START it do not do it for any religion. They do it for personal gain. They just use religion/ethnic lines to cause problems.
You mean the way some political campaigns are run? ;)

[Mickyhoo]

Political campaigns are bad.. but they are not as bad as stirring up old hatreds to the point of war... and worse.. like what is going on over there now.

All this started cause someone wanted power.. so they stirred up all the old hatreds to get it. But they went to the point of stirring it up to war levels.

And we think our polititions are bad.

[keithster]

If some of our politicians found themselves in a Kosovo-like situation, they'd probably stoop as low. :)

I seem to recall one of the groups being a drug running bunch of thugs. Was it the Kosovo Liberation Army?

I hear about the life people lead just trying to stay alive day to day and it makes my problems shrink dramatically.

[Zephyrus]

You guys have certainly raised some interesting points! Let's see, one by one...

The peace in Yugoslavia before all this started was mainly because of one man, Marshall Tito who died in 1980. He was the war hero who reunited Yugoslavia after it fell appart in 1941 in the name of communism. So when he died, the only thing preventing the hatred to start spilling over died with him, and the process of decline started slowly...So it wasn't so much that they had a common enemy (Yugoslavia was a lot less communist than the other "Eastern block" states I think), but rather they had a common man to unite them.

The Bosnian war was horrific, in that all the sides share a common Slav heritage, but with three different religions. The Serbs were conquered by the Ottoman empire in the 14th century, and remained under them for 500 years. Most preserved their Christian Orthodox faith, while some of them converted and became Serbian muslims, later known just as muslims. The Croats were under the influence of the Austro-Hungarian empire, so they were obviously Catholic. This is where the religious differences come from...

War is like any war, there are no "good" guys or "bad" guys, pretty much everyone is guilty of something. The fact that the media chose to focus on one side of the story instead of the other is because of political reasons...The Kosovo conflict was also covered in a biased way. It is a fact that almost all of Europe's drug supplies come through Kosovo, smuggled by the Kosovo Liberation Army in order to fund their campaigns. They also smuggled weapons from Albania, and quite possibly anything else that is smugglable! The Yugoslav army was trying (albeit with great difficulty) to stop these drug runners, who would frequently hide among civilian populations, and hence the refugees...

It's all pretty messed up over there by the looks of it! NATO got itself into a lot more than it bargained for, looks like it might be sticking around for a long time to come! I hope this whole mess is resolved soon, but by the looks of things, it might be just as bad as the Middle East?!