BETRAYED

[D' Jacqulin Williams]

my husband and i have been together 21 years and i would say we seems to be happy. So now i don't understand what my husband did to our happiness. about a year ago my husband had an affair with this ex-coworker of his, and i personally could tell alot about the type of person she was when i first seen her. She look to be that kinda of woman who had no one because she wanted to destroy peoples marriages. and too, alot of people knew a little more than i did about her. well i did mention it to my husband who in turn told me he heard the same thing, but seems to think that she has alot of problems and that she just needed someone to talk too, he would tell he would listen and give her scriptures to read. Me, being the good wife believe this, because my husband has a way of talking to people with situations and just helping them out, why he can't do it for us remains to be seen. anyway he says he having a hard time remembering everything that happen a year ago, i personally refuse to believe this. he only remembers and tells me that which he knows my not hurt me too much, but it all hurts. we've talked about affairs before and what we do if in fact it happen, needless to say we didn't do any of that we say we would. I can't leave my family and my husband doesn't want to leave either, we both want to work together to make our marriage like it was or even better than before. Since, my husband only remembers this just a little, i decided to ask the person who is involved also about it. He thought I should just ask him and that would be enough, but, if he can't tell me what i need to know , i think i should ask her, he even said, that he was going to tell me, and she ask when. She didn't say don't tell or think about this, just when. Now she about to married to someone who knows little about her and the things she does and i really and truly don't want revenge, because Jesus, says he'll fight my battle if I just keep still, and i plan to let him do just that. but, i think and believe that i'm entitled to ask her any questions that i may have, but, if you feel i should not and just let it be then let me know? i too need advice on what i must do. Help!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blinc]

Hello D' Jacqulin Williams... what a horrible position you seem to be in... one that sounds so full of pain.

I can't talk to you as a counselor, I'm not qualified. I can talk to you as one woman to another.... a woman who has been in your shoes. My ex-husband had an affair, it destroyed our marriage, because he refused to quit seeing the "other" woman, even though he said he had. I was willing to try and work through it at first, til I found out he was still seeing her. I'm afraid that experience has left me rather bitter and I don't think that I could forgive my husband now, if he did the same thing. It's a terribly damaging thing, not only to a marriage, but to an individuals ability to trust and love. I usually don't talk about things like this from my past... not something I'm very proud of, but I didn't want you to think you were alone out here in what you're going through.

I know the pain and self-doubt you must be feeling... well, maybe I don't know the full scope of it, since we weren't married for 21 years. Only a few. I do know how badly it shook my own world though. Like you, I wanted to know everything there was to know about the other woman. Why did she think it was ok to mess around with MY husband? Why did he turn to her? What did she have that I didn't? There were a whole lot of questions I wanted to ask. I placed a LOT of the blame on her, because it was too painful to think that it wasn't just her, it was also my husband that strayed. I never did get to talk to her and now I'm thankful for that. It wouldn't have changed the fact that something DID happen - it wouldn't have changed ANYTHING in the past... it would have only caused more pain I think. That's what I'm worried about for you. Will it REALLY do any good to talk to this woman? Or, will you just be opening yourself for more hurt?

I am so very, very sorry for the pain you are going through. You need answers from your husband... truthful answers about what went wrong. Are things mendable? Will he be faithful if you give him a second chance? Can you forgive him? A lot of things sound like they need to be worked out. The only thing I can think that may be of help now, is marriage counseling for the both of you. James will probably have some good ideas for places or people that may be available. You'll be in my thoughts and I hope you know whenever you need to get things off your chest, we'll try to be here for you.

{Hug} I think you need one... just wish it could be in person.

[Happy_H]

It hurts to be betrayed, there is no question about that. The question is how long will you carry that pain around with you and what can your H do to relieve it? If getting in touch with the OW (other woman) gives you relief, then do it.

Keep in mind though that you get what you give. If you treat her with disrespect, you will get disrespect. Also, be aware that although you have painted her as an evil human being, if your H liked her enough to want to help her initially, she is probably sweet, generous, honest - and vulnerable. She may feel ashamed of what she did and be in a lot of pain too. This pain will be reflected in her attitude toward you. Any critisism you offer will be hurtful and if that is your intent, then look in the mirror before you paint someone else as being evil.

Too recover your marriage, perhaps I could offer a perspective that has helped me through some trying times in the past. Think of marriage as an opportunity to love and be loved. Nothing more. It is not about monogamy, it is not about fulfilling needs, it is not about raising kids - just love. Yes, all these things amy effect how you feel about loving your spouse, but that is where the challenge lies. How much love and forgiveness are you capable of giving. This is how god will judge you, this is what we all need to become better at, this is where you can grow as a result of this tragedy. You have the opportunity to forgive and love under very difficult circumstances. Grow and meet the challenge.

[jamesglewisf]

D' Jacqulin-->

First let me say that I wouldn't change one word of blinc's post. I think she was right on target; and since she has experience in this situation, I would assume that her understanding is pretty good.

When I read your post, my first thought was that I could not understand how contacting this other woman would make you feel any better. blinc appears to agree with me on this.

[jamesglewisf]

There are some questions you need to answer for yourself. First, do you want to stay married to your husband? Jesus said in Matthew 19:8 that adultery was grounds for divorce. You would incur no guilt or shame for divorcing your husband.

Does God like divorce? No, He hates it (Malachi 2:16), but the marriage was dissolved by the infidelity. Hating divorce and allowing for it in cases of adultery are not mutually exclusive. So, divorce for you is not a moral issue--it is a personal choice.

Second, if you are going to stay with your husband, I think you need to seek counseling together so that you can work out the issues involved. A counselor can be a referee to keep things sane. I would seek a Christian counselor who believes the Bible 100%. Ask your pastor to recommend one.

Third, regardless of whether or not you stay with your husband, if he repents and asks for your forgiveness, you are required by God to forgive him. Like I said, that does not mean you have to stay married to him.

Forgiving someone who repents is not an option for Christians. We are required to do it. It's not easy. It doesn't mean you will forget what happened. It just means that you won't throw it in his face all of the time. One thing that can be a comfort is knowing that Jesus offered forgiveness to the people who crucified Him.

How do you forgive someone who has betrayed you? I don't know. Do you have to be some kind of super Christian to do this? No. This is not a maturity issue. It is an obedience issue. I'm going to tell you an interesting story in my next post.

[jamesglewisf]

Luke 17:3-5
3 "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
4 "And if he sins against you seven times a day, and returns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' forgive him."
5 And the apostles said to the Lord, "Increase our faith!"
This is exactly what I would have said, "Lord, increase my faith." It must take incredible faith to be able to forgive someone who treats you this way.

What do you suppose Jesus' response was? Luke 17:6-10
6 And the Lord said, "If you had faith like a mustard seed, you would say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and be planted in the sea'; and it would obey you.
7 "But which of you, having a slave plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, 'Come immediately and sit down to eat'?
8 "But will he not say to him, 'Prepare something for me to eat, and {properly} clothe yourself and serve me until I have eaten and drunk; and afterward you will eat and drink'?
9 "He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he?
10 "So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done {only} that which we ought to have done.'"
Jesus' response was that it only takes the faith of a mustard seed to obey God's command. Jesus' story reflects the fact when our master (God) commands us to do something, regardless of how tired and beaten up we are, we obey. He is going to give us the strength to obey. We don't even have to ask Him for it.

This passage of Scripture is always a comfort to me. I don't have to be some kind of superhero to obey God. I don't have to say a special prayer, although I can. I don't have to get into the lotus position or meditate or anything. I am just supposed to obey.

Here is what makes this passage easier for me. I sin against God all of the time, and yet He forgives me. I would be pretty annoyed if someone sinned against me 70 times and asked for forgiveness 70 times. Heck, I'll bet I've sinned 700,000 times against God, and He still forgives me.

Does this make the pain of adultery any less? No. Does it take away your hurt? No. But obeying God is always the best thing to do. In the end it leads to peace, comfort, and hope.

[jamesglewisf]

BTW, did you know that the "faith of a mustard seed" quote was in the context of forgiving an habitual offender? Yikes.

[jamesglewisf]

I'd like to address a couple of other things that were said by Happy_H.

Marriage is very much about monogamy. It is a covenant between a man and a woman before God. That is why having sex outside of marriage is a sin and is called adultery. That is why adultery nullifies the marriage contract.

Marriage is very much about meeting each other's needs. That is one of the main points about life period. Philippians 2:3-4
3 Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself;
4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.
Marriage is very much about raising kids. God said to be fruitful and multiply. Psalm 127:3 says, "Behold, children are a gift from the Lord." We are supposed to work hard at raising our children:Deuteronomy 6:6-7
6 "And these words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart;
7 and you shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.
Of course, you don't neglect your marriage for the sake of your children. Your children need you to have a strong marriage.

[jamesglewisf]

Next, on criticism. Jesus said to take the log out of your eye before you try to take the speck out of someone else's eye. He said to "first take the log out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." There is nothing wrong with criticism if it comes from the right attitude and is edifying. If it will build someone up and help them grow, it is very useful.

Finally, our lives will not be judged by how how much love and forgiveness we are capable of giving. When some people asked Jesus, "What must we do to do the works that God requires?" John 6:29
29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one He has sent."
This is what you will be judged on: whether or not you believe in Jesus. Everything else we do is to recognize that He is both our Savior and our Lord. We obey (love and forgive) because we love Him.

[jamesglewisf]

D' Jacqulin-->

I'm real sorry this happened to you. Just know that you have friends here, and that we really care about you. Can I recommend another site where they might be better at answering your questions? It is called Marriage Builders (http://www.marriagebuilders.com). They have a forum (http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro) also where you can ask questions.

Feel free to ask questions here. We'll do our best, but Dr. Harley knows a lot more about these topics than I do.

[D' Jacqulin Williams]

Blinc

Thanks for reaching out. I feel like I'm alone in this, I know it happens to other people too but, I didn't think anyone would talk about it. I'm a person who loves to talk about things. I know it may seem that I'll be hurt by what she says to me, but, I need to know why did she with MY H? Maybe, i'm so confused and hurt that i just want answers to let me know what happen. My H keeps telling me it was nothing I did, he's all to blame. Which in turn is true, but, he did not do this alone, she knew that we were happily married, and i guess i was too happy for her. I really don't want to sound like i'm evil, i'm just trying to understand why people take other people emotions and use them as tissue or paper. I just believe I could talk to her about the situation I could find out more than I already know. I hope I don't sound too immature or stupid, but, I feel if I don't know it makes me seem lost inside. I guess i really don't know how to deal with this, since, I never imagine it happening to us. I know I have to pray and just give it to God. But, I would like to get it all out and over with before so that I don't do something against God afterwards. It's just so hard to explain. I really don't believe anything the OW says can hurt me, my H did that already he's apologized so many times. And he thinks that if I question her, I shouldn't have anymore for him. because he believes that anything she tells me i'll believe. I don't know her that well but well enough to know that she knew it was wrong. I've called her to make an arrangement earlier today, and she agreed to talk to me, i gave her an opportunity not to talk to me if she wishes, and she said, she would. But, I refuse to tell her over the phone about what and just said, i had questions only she could answer. she agreed to meet me at work, as soon as she left work. I've asked the Lord to guide me through so that i don't get angry and say things that shouldn't be said or anything of this nature, i believe through him i can do it. i just need to know why that's it?
thanks for the hug i could really use it now and even maybe later.

[blinc]

Well of course it is a personal decision for you. I think all of the advice given, was meant as an offering of whatever solace we could offer you. It's terrible to know that humans can cause suffering like this upon each other. It makes it so much harder to deal with, when it's a loved one who has caused the pain.

We'll be thinking of you and wishing you the answers you need in this meeting with the woman. I hope it brings you some sort of peace. :)

[kezzer]

I'm sorry this has happened to you. I too know your pain. Somehow, after many months of distrust and almost hatred I managed to forgive my hubby. I even talked to the woman and now I'm even friends with her. It wasn't planned that I talked to her, I didn't want to, but she lived in the same building and a mutual friend had gone up to one of her bbq's and I was bringing up the trash and they called me over since it was dark they thought I was my hubby and the rest is history. It was very hard for me at first to except, I would mention his unfaithfulness at every chance I got, which made things real bad for us. But I love my hubby and while everyonce in awhile I'll thinkabout it and get upset I'm thankful we worked it out. I'm not advising you to go my exact route but I just wanted to tell you that sometimes with a little patience and there may be hope for you two to get by. I wish you all my luck, and many hugs. You definitly need them to get by this. And this forum seems like a great place when you need a friend to chat with! Keep smiling, it will get better:)

[jamesglewisf]

Everybody has such different stories and different experiences. It is nice that you all are willing to share. When something bad happens in life, it feels good to know that you are not alone and that others understand.

It really is a shame how much we hurt each other. The sad thing about all of this, D' Jacquelin, is that nobody in your story got anything out of this. Your husband wrecked your marriage, you got hurt very badly, and this OW is trying to start a new marriage after wrecking one herself. It was a lose, lose, lose situation.

I hope that you have a beneficial conversation with her. I hope that it starts the healing process, answers some questions, and allows you to tell her how much she hurt you and your family.

[D' Jacqulin Williams]

I really didn't understand your point on this matter. You seem to think that I'm an evil person and that the OW was the best thing for my H. Well, believe it or not what she did was very wrong and my H too. If the picture I painted of her was a bad one that's the picture she carries. I don't think any H or any W should hurt each other, but, I don't think another woman or another man should think it's okay if they do that. She was aware of our marriage and she knew how we both felt, and if she was so sweet, generous, honest- and vulnerable, like you said she was, she wouldn't have allow my H to touch her in that way. I'm HURTING, I'M NOT CRAZY!! I'm not out to disrespect anyone, and she has already disrespected me. I don't want to kill her, all I want are answers. I want to be able to forgive so that one day I may be able to forget this is all I was trying to say, if I didn't convey that in my statement please understand I'm trying to deal with this the only way I know I can. You said, "what goes around comes around", Do you think that same way for her?

D'Jacqulin

[blinc]

Sorry Happy H, I'm with D'Jacqueline on the "sweet, honest, generous and vulnerable" points here. Those traits don't seem to fit in my mind either, with a woman who would sleep with another woman's husband. Well, you may be able to take out the generous part... sounds like she was too generous. Ok that leaves sweet, vulnerable and honest - none of those traits seem to go along with this type of woman. These are just my opinions - don't mean to sound like I'm picking on you... we all have different views and that's what makes life interesting. :)

Did you ever meet with the woman D'Jacqueline? Are you doing ok?

[jamesglewisf]

I too have been wondering how you were doing D' Jacquelin. I can't imagine what you've been going through.

[D' Jacqulin Williams]

Blinc

Do you have an e-mail address? I have something to ask you and it's really personal so if I can and it's not asking too much. i haven't talk with her yet, tomorrow is the day for that if it's God's will and if she decides she still wants to talk. I would like to keep you inform about if it's okay with you. I finally found someone I can talk to about this and feel a little better about. my e-mail address is deejayw862@hotmail.com. If ever you get around to do this.

D'Jay

[blinc]

Anytime you want to contact someone on the forum, all's you have to do is click on their "mail" icon, at the bottom of each of their posts. These emails go directly to our personal email addresses - they are not seen by anyone else on the forum, and are kept totally confidential. Just a little info. for future reference there. :)

I would hope we all can comfort you, or help to get your mind off things in other areas of the forum. :) But, if you wish to contact me privately, I'll do whatever I can to help. Just hope I can.

[Karenluvs6]

I definitely feel for you!
I don't know what I would do in your position, although I have said a zillion times, "You'll be out on the curb"..."I leave you in a second"..."You'd have to find a new home"...etc.....I don't think anyone really does exactly what they say!
Maybe he says that he doesn't remember a lot of stuff because he doesn't wish to hurt you anymore than he has...And believe me, I am not making excuses for him! I do not deal in this type of behavior...I've lost friends because of the way I am.
Listen to Jamesglewisf....He's a smart man!
I think counseling would be a good idea regardless of whether you're staying with him or not....you'll need it to deal with your feelings on this.

[IBM]

D'Jacqulin,
I too have gone thru the pain of my h having an affair. So I do understand your struggle and pain. We were married 27 years when he had an affair with a co worker, I thought my life was over, but with Gods help we have began to build a better relationship than we had before, we talk now about everything - we share life - all of it the good and the bad. I tell you this so you know that it can work and there is hope. The other woman has nothing you really need she may even cause more harm I know I too was tempted to talk to my h girlfriend but he stopped seeing her and and has been working on us for a year now so I too have let her go. But that is a choice only you can make.
There is hope for a better future and the key is to pray together and communicate.
The one thing that echoed in my head in the begining and even now is the Lords Prayer, you know the "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors" I know it is hard but you are not alone, there are a lot of infidelity survivers out here and any time you need to talk ... well drop a line here and I will talk untill you feel like there is a life line for ya
hang in there
Gods Blessings
IBM

[blinc]

How are you doing D'Jacqueline? We haven't heard from you for awhile. Hope you are doing good and please know we're thinking of you.