"Passion of the Christ" question...

[HHKev84]

I know this probably dosen't relate to the Bible but I figured someone who has read the Bible would be able to assist me. I recently watched Gibson's "Passion" and had a query.
Who--or what--was the think in the black cloak that was talking to jesus at the beginning? And who was the child he/she/it was holding? I've heard it was an anti-virgin mary and anti-christ, and I've also heard that the figure is "satan". And the earthquake at the end (sorry, I promised one question but got thinking of another) was that God's rage at the murder of his son or was that symbolic of the sin that Jesus died for?
Oh, I am not religious, more Agnostic than anything else (I've studied other religions, nothing really suits me...or I don't suit it) but I have to say that Jesus had a very good point when he was talking to his followers on the hill toward the end. Something to the effect of (paraphrasing the best I can) "When you only love those who love you, where's the reward in that?" I think that means alot even if you don't believe in a religion, and this world could do with more of that mindframe.
My favorite part in the movie was the resurrection scene, it was one of those BANG! ITS DONE type of endings that leave you hanging.

[jamesglewisf]

Remember that not everything in Gibson's movie was out of the Bible. It was pretty sound, but some of it was his own interpretation or trying to tell the story on the screen.

The person in black represented Satan, as far as I can tell.

The earthquake at the end is taken from this passage:Matthew 27:45-56

45 Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, " Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? "that is," My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me? " 47 And some of those who were standing there, when they heard it, began saying, "This man is calling for Elijah." 48 And immediately one of them ran, and taking a sponge, he filled it with sour wine, and put it on a reed, and gave Him a drink. 49 But the rest of them said, "Let us see whether Elijah will come to save Him." 50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. 51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom, and the earth shook; and the rocks were split, 52 and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. 54 Now the centurion, and those who were with him keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, "Truly this was the Son of God!" 55 And many women were there looking on from a distance, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to Him, 56 among whom was Mary Magdalene, along with Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.
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The other passage you mentioned was:Luke 6:31-36

31 "And just as you want people to treat you, treat them in the same way. 32 "And if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 33 "And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. 34 "And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, in order to receive back the same amount. 35 "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. 36 "Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
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[jamesglewisf]

Other passages used: Mark 14:22-52

22 And while they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it; and gave it to them, and said, "Take it; this is My body." 23 And when He had taken a cup, and given thanks, He gave it to them; and they all drank from it. 24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. 25 "Truly I say to you, I shall never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God."

26 And after singing a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

27 And Jesus said to them, "You will all fall away, because it is written, 'I will strike down the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.' 28 "But after I have been raised, I will go before you to Galilee." 29 But Peter said to Him, "Even though all may fall away, yet I will not." 30 And Jesus said to him, "Truly I say to you, that you yourself this very night, before a cock crows twice, shall three times deny Me." 31 But Peter kept saying insistently, "Even if I have to die with You, I will not deny You!" And they all were saying the same thing, too.

32 And they came to a place named Gethsemane; and He said to His disciples, "Sit here until I have prayed." 33 And He took with Him Peter and James and John, and began to be very distressed and troubled. 34 And He said to them, "My soul is deeply grieved to the point of death; remain here and keep watch." 35 And He went a little beyond them, and fell to the ground, and began to pray that if it were possible, the hour might pass Him by. 36 And He was saying, "Abba! Father! All things are possible for Thee; remove this cup from Me; yet not what I will, but what Thou wilt." 37 And He came and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, "Simon, are you asleep? Could you not keep watch for one hour? 38 "Keep watching and praying, that you may not come into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." 39 And again He went away and prayed, saying the same words. 40 And again He came and found them sleeping, for their eyes were very heavy; and they did not know what to answer Him. 41 And He came the third time, and said to them, "Are you still sleeping and taking your rest? It is enough; the hour has come; behold, the Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of sinners. 42 "Arise, let us be going; behold, the one who betrays Me is at hand!"

43 And immediately while He was still speaking, Judas, one of the twelve, came up, accompanied by a multitude with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders. 44 Now he who was betraying Him had given them a signal, saying, "Whomever I shall kiss, He is the one; seize Him, and lead Him away under guard." 45 And after coming, he immediately went to Him, saying, "Rabbi!" and kissed Him. 46 And they laid hands on Him, and seized Him. 47 But a certain one of those who stood by drew his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest, and cut off his ear. 48 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Have you come out with swords and clubs to arrest Me, as against a robber? 49 "Every day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not seize Me; but this has happened that the Scriptures might be fulfilled." 50 And they all left Him and fled.

51 And a certain young man was following Him, wearing nothing but a linen sheet over his naked body; and they seized him. 52 But he left the linen sheet behind, and escaped naked.
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Luke 22:47-53

47 While He was still speaking, behold, a multitude came, and the one called Judas, one of the twelve, was preceding them; and he approached Jesus to kiss Him. 48 But Jesus said to him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?" 49 And when those who were around Him saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, shall we strike with the sword?" 50 And a certain one of them struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his right ear. 51 But Jesus answered and said, "Stop! No more of this." And He touched his ear and healed him. 52 And Jesus said to the chief priests and officers of the temple and elders who had come against Him, "Have you come out with swords and clubs as against a robber? 53 "While I was with you daily in the temple, you did not lay hands on Me; but this hour and the power of darkness are yours."
NASMark 14:60-65

60 And the high priest stood up and came forward and questioned Jesus, saying, "Do You make no answer? What is it that these men are testifying against You?" 61 But He kept silent, and made no answer. Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, "Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" 62 And Jesus said, "I am; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven." 63 And tearing his clothes, the high priest said, "What further need do we have of witnesses? 64 "You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?" And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death. 65 And some began to spit at Him, and to blindfold Him, and to beat Him with their fists, and to say to Him, "Prophesy!" And the officers received Him with slaps in the face.
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[jamesglewisf]

Matthew 27:3-32

3 Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." But they said, "What is that to us? See to that yourself!" 5 And he threw the pieces of silver into the sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself. 6 And the chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, "It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood." 7 And they counseled together and with the money bought the Potter's Field as a burial place for strangers. 8 For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day. 9 Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled, saying, "And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of the one whose price had been set by the sons of Israel; 10 and they gave them for the Potter's Field, as the Lord directed me. "

11 Now Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor questioned Him, saying, "Are You the King of the Jews?" And Jesus said to him, "It is as you say." 12 And while He was being accused by the chief priests and elders, He made no answer. 13 Then Pilate said to Him, "Do You not hear how many things they testify against You?" 14 And He did not answer him with regard to even a single charge, so that the governor was quite amazed. 15 Now at the feast the governor was accustomed to release for the multitude any one prisoner whom they wanted. 16 And they were holding at that time a notorious prisoner, called Barabbas. 17 When therefore they were gathered together, Pilate said to them, "Whom do you want me to release for you? Barabbas, or Jesus who is called Christ?" 18 For he knew that because of envy they had delivered Him up. 19 And while he was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent to him, saying, "Have nothing to do with that righteous Man; for last night I suffered greatly in a dream because of Him." 20 But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the multitudes to ask for Barabbas, and to put Jesus to death. 21 But the governor answered and said to them, "Which of the two do you want me to release for you?" And they said, "Barabbas." 22 Pilate said to them, "Then what shall I do with Jesus who is called Christ?" They all said, "Let Him be crucified!" 23 And he said, "Why, what evil has He done?" But they kept shouting all the more, saying, "Let Him be crucified!" 24 And when Pilate saw that he was accomplishing nothing, but rather that a riot was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the multitude, saying, "I am innocent of this Man's blood; see to that yourselves." 25 And all the people answered and said, "His blood be on us and on our children!" 26 Then he released Barabbas for them; but after having Jesus scourged, he delivered Him to be crucified.

27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole Roman cohort around Him. 28 And they stripped Him, and put a scarlet robe on Him. 29 And after weaving a crown of thorns, they put it on His head, and a reed in His right hand; and they kneeled down before Him and mocked Him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!" 30 And they spat on Him, and took the reed and began to beat Him on the head. 31 And after they had mocked Him, they took His robe off and put His garments on Him, and led Him away to crucify Him.

32 And as they were coming out, they found a man of Cyrene named Simon, whom they pressed into service to bear His cross.
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[jamesglewisf]

Resurrection scene:
John 20:3-10

3 Peter therefore went forth, and the other disciple, and they were going to the tomb. 4 And the two were running together; and the other disciple ran ahead faster than Peter, and came to the tomb first; 5 and stooping and looking in, he saw the linen wrappings lying there; but he did not go in. 6 Simon Peter therefore also came, following him, and entered the tomb; and he beheld the linen wrappings lying there, 7 and the face-cloth, which had been on His head, not lying with the linen wrappings, but rolled up in a place by itself. 8 So the other disciple who had first come to the tomb entered then also, and he saw and believed. 9 For as yet they did not understand the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead. 10 So the disciples went away again to their own homes.
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[Justawoman]

James did you like the movie? We bought one and are planning a family night to sit and watch it. Our 10 year old is nervous about seeing it. Do you think it is appropriate with proper adult supervision and feedback?

[jamesglewisf]

I loved the movie, but I wouldn't let anyone that young see it. It is too violent. Even with adult supervision and feedback, I think the images are too much for a 10 year old. It is rated R for good reason.

[Justawoman]

Thanks for the feedback. It has proven more challenging to find a free date for all of us to get together.

[OnceByten]

I agree it was an amazing movie, but I would not let anyone youger than about 14 see it. I found it disturbing, and I am into vampire movies LOL.

I think the most disturbing thing about it was the fact that it really happened to a real person, and it's not just a movie.

[CuriousG]

I still have yet to see the movie. I just haven't been in the right frame of mind to view it yet. It's not the kind of movie you can just say, "Hey, wanna watch a movie tonight? How about the Passion of the Christ?"

The one thing that upsets me about a lot of the people who have seen the movie, is that they think everyone is obligated. I don't know how many times someone has asked me if I've seen it, and then told me I have to see it, because if you're a Christian it's sacrilege not to see it. I already know the story and what it means to me. A movie by Mel Gibson is not going to change my perception of Christ and my belief system. I'm not going to cheapen my faith like that. No offense to anyone else, that's just how I feel. I still want to see it eventually, just on my own terms.

[OnceByten]

I felt the same way CuriousG, I watched it on my terms BY MYSELF so I could have the time to take it in a digest it without interuption.

[Justawoman]

Well we started the Passion finally. I didn't say we finished it, yet. We gave up on ever getting all of our children home at the same time. We didn't even get past the first scene with the figure in black. Yeti, we took it to be Satan. It was so reminiscent of the temptations Christ went through. The whole, " you think you can handle everyone's sin, what a burden for you to carry" scenario.

We immediately stopped the movie and looked at each other. Grabbed our Bible and read the crucifixion from every account. No figure in the crucifixion/garden scene. Jim, we were under the impression that Gibson claimed his movie was on the accounts found the first 4 gospels. I remember watching all the hub-bub about before it's release and how Gibson felt compelled to do this because the Holy Spirit was moving him too.

In his first public comments about the film since the controversy began, Gibson said, "Neither I nor my film are anti-Semitic ... Nor do I hate anybody -- certainly not the Jews. They are my friends and associates ... Anti-Semitism is not only contrary to my personal beliefs, it is also contrary to the core message of my movie."

He added that the film is "meant to inspire, not offend. ... For those concerned about the content of this film, know that it conforms to the narratives of Christ's passion and death found in the four Gospels of the New Testament."
http://www.killermovies.com/p/passion/articles/3170.html

It just sort of led us to believe he was going to stick to the scripture. So now we are going to finish the whole movie with Bible in lap and remote in hand. We are doing this before we watch it as a family with our children. My spouse was more alarmed over the embellishment of the garden scene than I was. I tried to remind him that directors do this.

[Alec]

Don't even watch it if you want it to be a perfect or exact retelling from Scripture. There is some artistic license in it, especially with the Satan figure.

That said, nothing in it contradicts the essentials of the Gospel. If it did, then you would have had hundreds of ministers griping about it.

[Justawoman]

I can honestly say that my spouse will double check with the bible. Ever since we started a class where you read it through and look up the ancient meanings to words, he double checks everything anyone says. Good I guess he is reading the Bible.

[CuriousG]

I'm really tempted never to watch the "Passion " ever since last week. I attended a bible study culmination get-together with my girlfriend and her parents. During the discussion, the leader asked who had seen the movie. Everyone raised their hand except for me and my lovely partner. After the discussion when everyone was milling about, the leader came over and introduced himself. It was my girlfriends parents' group, so this was the first time we were there. He asked why we haven't gotten to see the Passion yet. Our answer has always been that we really haven't been in the mood to see someone get tortured for 2 hours, but we will watch it eventually. He said something to the effect of "you have to see the movie so that you can understand everything Jesus went through to save you, and you can understand how much he loves you. It's so powerful." Looking back, my reply was rude, but I thought his approach was as well. I said, "well, I've been a Christian all my life, I've gone to church and read the bible. I think the bible did a pretty good job of telling the story. Do you think Mel Gibson did a better job than God?" He just kind of looked at me and said something like, "well you should still take some time to see it," and dismissed himself. I know this is a little off topic, but I'm just tired of some Christians who question other Christians based on whether or not they watched the Passion of the Christ and what they thought about it. It's ridiculous to me.

That's like me judging someone of the Jewish faith based on how many times they've seen Schindler's list and what they thought about it. It's a movie, not a measure of faith.

[jamesglewisf]

Ditto.

[Justawoman]

Well said indeed CG. I don't really care to watch it. The account in the Bible is very moving.

[DataJack]

...we really haven't been in the mood to see someone get tortured for 2 hours.... "you have to see the movie so that you can understand everything Jesus went through to save you, and you can understand how much he loves you. It's so powerful."..."well...I think the bible did a pretty good job of telling the story. Do you think Mel Gibson did a better job than God?" He just kind of looked at me and said something like, "well you should still take some time to see it," and dismissed himelf.

That's like me judging someone of the Jewish faith based on how many times they've seen Schindler's list and what they thought about it. It's a movie, not a measure of faith.

BRAVO FOR YOU !! i for one have no interest in seeing the movie. The account of christs undeserved torture and death in the bible is enough for me...i don't need to see jesus in pain to understand what he went through.

[KalenElendil]

I'm with curious on this one...i've been told that i need to watch this movie immediatly because it will change my life. However i personally believe that watching this movie would do nothing to change my life. I have been a christian since i was about 5 and i got my first bible. God doesn't want us to be good christians because Jesus sacraficed himself and went through alot of pain. God wants us to want to do the right thing without the guilt and without the whole i have to be like Jesus because he was tortured for me feeling. He wants me to obey him willingly for no other reason then for him...so there is no reason for people to watch the Passion unless they want to.

[jamesglewisf]

Whoever told you that just has a flair for the dramatic. It probably meant a lot to them, and they assume that everyone will have exactly the same reaction. It would be better to spend time reading the Bible then going to a movie. I enjoyed the movie, but it was not a life-changing experience. Your friend might not really spend enough time in the word. The movie doesn't tell a new story. It is right there in the Bible.

[ladybug56]

We watched the first hour of it.I certainly didn't recommend it to anyone nor will I. I'm even too young to watch something like that LOL

I went & saw "The Exorcist" (in my 20's) & walked out.Sceered the bee-geebies out of me!{anon}