Big Moral question

[necrominator]

I run a site which would be considered morally bad its an essay paper site, http://phpcore.com and well it can be used by some to cheat, i like to look at it as if im just providing info, and if i dont do it someone else will, so i just might as well, what do you guys think.

[jamesglewisf]

The "if I don't do it somebody else will" defense doesn't hold much water.

[necrominator]

True, but am i really doing something that bad?

[Karenluvs6]

There are way too many kids' in our country, who are being passed through school without ever truly learning basic skills. I don't think that writing an essay is so pain staking that ppl can't do it themselves.
Do you see what I'm getting at?
I mean, you may, in your own way, be trying to help others, but don't you realize that the kids' who use this site will likely pass through school without knowing how to do a simple task such as writing a paper?

Did you write all those papers yourself?
Because I am wondering why anyone, who committed thier time and sat and wrote these papers, would want to share their hard earned grade with some strange kid who is just too lazy to write an original paper on thier own.

I would not approve of one of my kids' using a site like that.

[kezzer]

What do you get from helping other people cheat??? If you took the time to write these papers then why shouldn't every other teenager in school??? My children would be in so much trouble if I ever caught them cheating.

[TTP]

I'm a college student and I've seen sights like this, but I believe in getting only what you work for. You put the work into this so you should be the only one getting the credit. I never have and never will use a site such as that.

[WaltSnider]

I disagree with the others. I say run the site. If others are too unoriginal to use the work provided there, then that's their problem and they'll grow up to wear a nametag on their shirts at work.

[theyeti]

If with you, WaltSnider. First of all, i really don't think there are that many people out there who go to that kind of a site, and most of them just go for research. I've been to a couple like that before, but just to get ideas. I don't think its all that bad. If some kid wants to copy it, go ahead, its his loss. Nobody is complaining that students take stuff from abcnews.com, for example, even tho many people due and don't bother to put any legal mumbo-jumbo on it... i mean think about it! Someone could copy words from anywhere! Don't just go complaining about these kinds of sites, people, unless you're one of those who has to sit over your kid's shoulder everytime they use the internet and browse thru the cache when they're done.

[Alec]

I don't think necrominator was sincere when he asked this question. He already knows it is wrong to aid kids in cheating. And I think both of you know it is wrong to aid kids in cheating.

This looks like a forum for kids to come ask parents a question and get a sensible answer from a parent. Since this thread has turned into a mockery of that, someone please move it to The Great Debate where it belongs.

[blinc]

Necrominator may have been sincere Alec, so I won't assume he wasn't being so when he started this thread. But yes, this thread does fit better in the Great Debates area of the forum, since this wasn't geared specifically towards asking a parent... but rather asking for everyone's opinion in general (it looks like to me).

So hop on board, we're hitching up the ol' mule and cart and moving this to the "Great Debates" area of the forum. :)

[Karenluvs6]

Good Call Alec/Blinc!


TheYeti/WaltSnider...if I understand you correctly, you are right. It is their loss if they must use someone else's work...I just meant that I don't think it should be encouraged. Kids' are just not learning what they should anymore. I don't think it's healthy for kids' to think it's ok to do this. They'll never ever learn for themselves this way.
And no, I'm not one of those parents who has to stand over my child's shoulder while he/she's on the internet, or anywhere else for that matter.
I trust my kids' to do what they have to do on thier own.
For all I know, my son may very well be getting his work papers from sites such as this, and if that's the case, I wouldn't punish him or anything....but I would let his teacher know what he is doing and I would be totally disappointed in him...and I assure you, he'd know it.

[blinc]

Originally posted by WaltSnider
I disagree with the others. I say run the site. If others are too unoriginal to use the work provided there, then that's their problem and they'll grow up to wear a nametag on their shirts at work.

Walt, am I understanding you right? Are you saying that if the kids don't take advantage of these cheat sites, are "too unoriginal to use the work" that they are going to end up with nametags on their shirt?

I'd have to go with just the opposite point of view if that is what you're saying... seems to me, if they use these sites to cheat, then they aren't learning anything for themselves, gaining any knowledge on their own... which means when they graduate, they'll have a less then average education because they won't have learned anything, except how to copy something down.

The knowledge won't be there, because they won't have an understanding of the contents of the work... just words on a paper that they copy down and turn in, without the chance for the realization, the thought processes, bringing an awareness of how or why something works a certain way. If you ask me, the people who cheat are the one's who'll end up with nametags sewn inside their shirts.

[Karenluvs6]

I am with her ^ 100%!

[WaltSnider]

Typically I wouldn't even reply to a post like that, but for the benefit of the children, I will and I hope Yeti will back me up in this, I will...

He already knows it is wrong to aid kids in cheating.Again I will state the whole point of my previous post so that Alec may stumble upon it, but I will go about it in a different manner:

He already knows it is wrong...Who are you to determine what he knows? Are you gifted with ESP (extra sensatory perception, thus the ability to read minds)? If so please contact me as we can make a lot of money together.

...to aid kids in cheating.How do you know it's his intention to aid other kids in cheating? That ESP again? Even if it IS his intention to do such, his intention would be protected by (I believe) the first amendmant, the right to free speech. Thus he's excercising his right. If it's a right, it's not wrong.

And I think both of you know it is wrong to aid kids in cheating.When questioning someone else's morals, there can never be a definate knowledge. of someone else's intentions unless (s)he states them in public. So anyway, to reply to that comment you made at Yeti and I, No, I don't think it's wrong. If kids want to cheat, I'm all for it... I'll need someone to fetch me a whopper with cheese value meal in a few years, after they have their shiny new diplomas. I was a major player in the raising of my younger brother and sister. I personally was raised in the 'realm' of martial arts and thus believe myself to have a great amount of honor. I taught them as much of this as I could in hopes to have them turn out better than myself and in conversation with my mother several months ago, my brother actually got in a fight with a kid that tried to make my brother copy his paper, so he could copy my brother's next one (trading answers). My brother solemnly refused repeatedly and the other child attacked him. I instilled values in my brother and sister to be better than that, not victim of it. My son, when he's able to go to school (just hatched from the egg last year :) will also know not to cheat... there are enough people that are adding statistics to the nations lack of education, he'll not help that number grow.

Since this thread has turned into a mockery of that...Only in your opinion, Alec.

As this has been moved, I'll add this then: Alec, I sincerely hope that you are not a judge for a county/city. You lace your words with canned opinion that is dengerous.

[WaltSnider]

In the writing of that long winded post, a few replys cam up so I'll address them with a couple sentences...

It begins at home ladies and gents. If we instill the proper values in them before the rest of the world can tarnish them, then they will be ok. I believe the latest study states that children learn everything they are going to from their parents by age 8, after that, it's the rest of the world.

I spend several hours a day with my son. I don't mean watching TV or eating meals, I mean playing with him and letting him crawl all over me (newborn) and so on and that will not stop by my initiative (sp?), it will on his. If parents spent more time with their kids, they'd know what's going on and know that their kids are doing what's right... which of course leads me to the conclusion of this post:

Right is just one person's (or a collective) opinion, not what is truely right.

[blinc]

This is just a friendly reminder. Please treat each other with respect. It's fine and dandy to see different viewpoints being posted... however, this is a friendly site and will remain so. Let's be nice to each other and treat each other with the respect we would wish others to treat us with. :)

[Alec]

Sorry Walt if I offended you. Please forgive me.

I have seen necrominator's posts in other forums. Based on his posts in other places, I would say that he already knew the answer to his question--or at least the answer he would get here. I should have included that disclaimer.

Necrominator did admit that his site could be used for cheating, thus my inference that he believes cheating is wrong. Otherwise, why bring it up?

I still disagree. Necrominator's original question was about the morality of the site, not whether or not it is protected by the First Amendment. For example, even though I have the right to cuss and say hateful words under the First Amendment, that doesn't mean that it is morally correct to do so. I do not believe that the First Amendment was given to us to establish the morality of words, but to give us the right to speak/write them without fear of retribution from the government.

About my post--I repeatedly said, "I think." I did not claim divination or even that I was necessarily correct. When someone prefaces his statements with "I think," then I think you need to give him a little lattitude. My "mockery" statement was probably out of line though, so I apologize for that.

[Karenluvs6]

you should never apologize for stating how you feel Alec!
That's what a forum is for!!

[Karenluvs6]

I have six children, that I spend all of my time with...every available moment that I have is for them... but do you honestly believe that because of that, they are excluded from any wrong doing or temptation?
They could spend every spare moment with me and thier father, but that doesn't mean that they won't be tempted to do things like this if they know it is readily available to them, and so incredibly easy to obtain.
Even the best parents have children who are not perfect in any way, shape or form.

[Karenluvs6]

For example, even though I have the right to cuss and say hateful words under the First Amendment, that doesn't mean that it is morally correct to do so. I do not believe that the First Amendment was given to us to establish the morality of words, but to give us the right to speak/write them without fear of retribution from the government.

totally correct!
Just because it's a right, doesn't mean it's right.

[Alec]

Originally posted by Karenluvs6
you should never apologize for stating how you feel Alec!
That's what a forum is for!! It is alright for me to state how I feel, but not to be rude in the process. I was apologizing for the rudeness.

[WaltSnider]

This will be my last post, as I did not like the way I was moderated, but it is, of course, the right of the owners and moderators to do so.

Alec, I was not angry at you... just seemed like you were placing your foot in your mouth and I was pointing it out to you. No hard feelings at all!

I would have emailed that to you, but you opted not to accept emails from the 'community' so I had to post it here instead.

Take care all!

[blinc]

I'm sorry you feel that way Walt. The rules of being nice applies to us all... you weren't being singled out in any way.
Perhaps you weren't aware of this thread? "Rules for the Forum"
http://frappydoo.com/forum/showthread.php3?threadid=788
4) Be nice to each other. Remember that someone having a different viewpoint from you own is not a hanging offense here at FrappyDoo! Please treat others with the same respect that you would wish to be accorded.

As you can see, being nice is something we all try to do. I'm very sorry you feel you have to leave over this matter. I'd be happy to discuss the matter with you further through emails if you wish.