Time Travel

[PacMan]

I want to know what you guys think

[jamesglewisf]

If you mean will it ever be possible--I doubt it. Just doesn't make sense.

[PacMan]

I beleave time travel is also imposible, but I also beleave in multiverses, and travel between them, like in Timeline

[jamesglewisf]

Can you explain a little more precisely what you mean? I'm not that scientific, and I'm not following you.

[OG-]

A multiverse theory, is that there are multiple universes coexisting at the same time. There is a universe in which something is possible. For example, there is a universe where you brushed your teeth, and one in which you didn't. So there would be an infinite number of universes. Some in which a difference is not even noticeable.

This is a theory I believe in, mainly because there is scientific evidence supporting such a theory. I can explain that later if needed to. But does anyone feel that it would be possible to travel between such dimensions. Are that to travel at all to the past would be possible? I do.

Does the past, present, and future all exist at the same time. Is the future set? Can you change it? Can you change the past??

[TWTCommish]

I don't see how time travel can be possible - what would consist of building such a machine to travel through time? What on earth is the "Flux Capacitor" made of? :D

I've heard of the Multivereses theory before, but don't buy it. I'd be interested to hear the evidence on this. Sorry if I seem doubtful of this, but I am! :)

[blinc]

Oooh, I love discussions like this one. The possibilities are staggering. I honestly can't decide, after years of reading theories and "debunkers" of theories, if it would be possible. In a way it seems possible, if you look at space travel theories... how if a person left earth, traveled at a certain speed and then returned. To them only x number of months may have passed, while here on earth years could have passed. Aagh, this is just such a great idea to wrap yourself up in. I usually end up going in circles though. I don't believe it would be possible to travel back in time though. I'd try to explain why, but would have everyone so confused they'd be slinging tomatoes at me! {toothy}

[TWTCommish]

Yeah, I'm open to the idea of "time travel" by going into "hypersleep" or heading to space and coming back to an Earth going ahead longer in time than you were away...

...but that's not exactly speeding away at 88MPH in a DeLorean, is it? :D

[OG-]

Well you asked for the evidence on how they have discovered these "multiverses", I'll try to explain it. When a beam of light enters a common area with other beams of light, the photons of light are slightly deflected, by other photons of light. Actually they can be deflected by other things, anything with the smallest amount of mass. The test that shows evidence of multiverses existing is a pretty simple one. Scientists created a vacum area, there was no area in it, a source of direct light was projected into that area. In theory, since there was nothing else in that area, tests proved there was nothing in there, the photons of light should have traveled in their predetermined path, and not have been deflected at all. But they were. The particles that the light was deflected by did NOT exist in that area, yet they were still there. Implying that there was something there that should not have existed there, unless it were on a different physical plane. This lead scientists to believe that these particles were particles of a coexisting universe. Meaning there was more than one universe in that area. Having an extremly small number of photons being very slightly deflected would have been plausible, but the number that were deflected further enforced the idea that there was a plane that couldn't be seen. Which gave birth to the idea that those particles represented the number of universes, different planes, that are coexisting in the same place. It was then thought that it would be possible to travel between these many different planes, although a way to has not been found yet.

One possible way is that a sort of teleportation device could transport one object in one universe, to a different universe, and since all plaves existed at once, a universe of the past could be found, and transported to. And for a little tid bit of information, teleportation has been accomplished. It occured in a New Mexico desert, I think it was New Mexico, where scientists succesfully deconstructed an apple, and reassembled it 12 miles across the desert. Pretty freaky huh? I know its not well known, but it is true, although it does seem impossible.

Another possible way to travel in time would be to go faster than light, which has been done, disproving many of many different scietists theories, including several of Einsteins own. It is thought that if you were to travel faster than light then you would seperate from the intertwined, space and time contineum. I can't really explain that though, but Stephen Hawkings can. If you want to learn more about that, then read "A Brief History of Time" by Stephen Hawkings.

Try to explain why it would be impossible, I can think of one way it would be impossible.

[TWTCommish]

I can't prove it's impossible - I didn't say I could either. :)

I'm a bit confused: I see your point, however, two things need to be considered:

1 - How can they have a space consisting of nothing?
2 - How can we be sure nothing is there? You said yourself even the smallest thing can deflect the photon. Everytime we determine that something is the smallest thing around, we cut it open and a bunch of smaller things come out. :)

Just pondering.

[TWTCommish]

And yeah, that apple thing is freaky. Where'd you hear about it?

[OG-]

The apple thing was stated by Michael Crichton, in the Acknoldgements section of his new book, Timeline. He tells of how it was done, and where it was done. Thats where I also first read about the idea of a multiverse, but I didn't believe it at first, after all it was just a book. So I looked into it and it makes sense. Funny story once, Me and some friends of mine were talking about time travel and god and stuff, and my friend, and hes pretty dumb, said something that blew me away. I told Jeff about my theory of the multiverse, a world exists for every possible variation of the original world. So basically if something is possible, then there is a world like that. And well I personally do not denie that God is a possiblity, I just don't believe in that theory. I do admit it is possible though. So anyways, then dumb Jeff says "that if we exist in a place where there is world for everything that is possible, and god is possible, then how do you know that that world is not out world?!" That kinda blew me away and I didn't have much to say back to that...

As to explain how they were to know the space was completely empty. I can not really tell you all the specific details, but I can tell you the basics. First off to make sure there was no air in it, they vacum sucked it. None was in it, and the vacum also removes all floating particles. Then they weighed it with certain precise scales to determine the weight. Not much else I can tell you. Even if the science of this is not plausible, I still believe in it because I think its a cool concept, that I think would work.

[Zephyrus]

Somehow I don't think that the apple thing is at all possible, I know of experiments where photons were transported (or rather a photon was created in a different location with the same properties as the original, without any way of knowing whether it was the same one), but I never heard of an apple being transported!! If you really think about it, how they would have to scan every atom, every electron and record the energy state so it can be accurately reconstructed somewhere else...sounds VERY MUCH like Star Trek material!

[TWTCommish]

LOL - yeah, I suppose it does.

The thing that makes me wonder is the different types of atoms and such. What I mean by this is: how do we know how small these things get? Seems like every time we think we've found the smallest "thing", we take a hammer to it and a bunch of smaller things come out. :D

So, if we can transport the Apple, wouldn't it mean that we'd already discovered the smallest "thing"? If we hand't, I don't think we could do that. I'm not ready to believe that we've discovered that much about Atoms and how small things get just yet...

Pardon my non-scientific terms. :D

[Zephyrus]

Well, all atoms are made up of two particles called protons and neutrons (protons are positively charged and neutrons are neutral). Of course, electrons go around the whole thing. Protons and neutrons themselves consist of other much smaller particles, there are several of them called quarks, leptons, muons, and some other stuff like that (I actually haven't got much of a clue, if anyone knows what the true relationship of these things please don't hesitate :) ). That's one of the possibilities that physicists have thought of, that perhaps these sub-atomic particles consist of even smaller sub-sub atomic particles, and that it goes on forever...but a lot of energy is required to go down that far, and it gets pretty complicated. Current particle accelerators aren't big enough!

[OG-]

The way it is explained in the book is that since the technology to acces all of those subatomic levels doesnt exist, but the technology to get to some does, then they can simulate for the really really small ones. SO basically they contruct a really similar apple, but it is not the same apple because it lacks some of the ientical particles.

I for one believe that if they can accelerate particles to travel faster than light, which they have done and I know is true, then why shouldn't they be able to do this?

[Zephyrus]

It's true, they have managed to accelerate light 300 times faster than the speed of light, here's a quote from the page I read it:

"Scientists have found ways to break that speed limit. In one experiment performed by researchers at the NEC Research Institute in Princeton, N.J., a pulse of light was sent through a transparent chamber filled with specially prepared cesium gas and was pushed to travel at speeds of 300 times the normal speed of light. The light travels so fast that the main part of the light pulse exits the chamber even before it enters. Theoretically, this means that you could see a moment in time before it actually takes place.

Researchers at the NEC declined to comment on the experiment while it is under review by Nature, a weekly peer-reviewed science journal. However, Kazuko Anderson, a spokesperson with the NEC in New York, confirmed the accuracy of the New York Times report"

- http://www.howstuffworks.com/news-item6.htm

The reason why I think that it's much harder for an apple is that basically an apple is made up of many cells, which in turn contain a hell of a lot of atoms arranged in proteins, DNA and a lot of other stuff as well. So to replicate an apple exactly, it would take a very precise rearrangement of every single atom, every energy state...etc. First they would have to invest a lot of energy to read the energy states of every particle, then even more energy to break it down atom by atom (without causing a nuclear chain reaction), then investing even more energy in putting it back together exactly how it was...somehow I think Humptey Dumptey will have to wait a little longer before they can put him back together again ;D
But I'll look up more info on the book to be sure!

[TWTCommish]

Howdy OG (Peter). :)

Was talking with my dad about that photon of light bouncing off of something, and I have a question...

Think of it this way: we have air molocules all around us, right? Now, what is in-between the molocules and such that make those up? Nothing, plain and simple - there is nothingness, and air molocules, all around us.

So, why doesn't light deflect all over the place everytime? After all, there are lots of patches of nothingness around us, but light doesn't endlessly deflect.

When you turn a light on, it doesn't beam down in a straight line - but it does shoot light in that direction. Some of it hits nothing and keeps going straight down/up from it's point of origin, but some hits air molocules and deflects, which is why light "branches out" all the time.

It's basically impossible for that experiment to have taken place exactly the way you have described it, then. :)

[TWTCommish]

Something else cool: scientists have managed to "freeze" a photon of light - basically it gets stuck in mid-air.

They filled a small area with a certain gas (I forgot which) - photons of light, when squeezing through these molocules, hit them at different angles and cause them to spin - they would shoot another beam of light from the opposite side of things, which would spin the molocules next to the other ones spinning - they would spin against each other and freeze, holding both photons of light in place.

They would then turn one light off, and the other would rocket off. Cool, huh?

[OG-]

Originally posted by OG-
Scientists created a vacum

A vacum has no air in it, so yes it could have worked. As for it bouncing off of whatever remaining molecules would be left in the vacum, they calculated the amount of photons of light that would bounce off, but the amount that actually did was far greater than the odds said they would.

[TWTCommish]

I don't know if you're understanding me - I'm saying that light goes through nothing all the time - why doens't it bounce off matter from a "parallel universe" then like in the experiment? What makes this one vacuum so special?

[OG-]

Of course light passes through nothing all the time, but there arn't enough of those mystery molecules to deflect enough light to spread it around, I'm only guessing this because I don't know for sure. But again this is only a theory that those molecules are of different universes, they could be something completely different. It could just be a messup in the equipment used.

[TWTCommish]

Alright...you see my point, though. I think it's a major jump to a conclusion to say that we have evidence of another dimension...It's not impossible, but I really don't think it exists.

[Zephyrus]

I heard about them freezing a photon of light. They did it by freezing sodium atoms to 50 billionths of a degree above apsolute zero creating a Bose-Einstein condensate, which more or less worked as you described. They drew an analogy to placing a silk thread on a railroad and watching a speeding train completely dissapear when it ran over it, only to reappear afterwards and continue at full blast! It could have major implications in superfast computing, but that's eons away...

By the way, the space between molecules is not quite vacuum, but is the very fabric of the universe as scientists describe it, so it is full of random fluctiations in the space/time continuum. The result of these fluctuations it that you have anti-particles being created and annihilated almost instantaneously releasing a burst of gamma radiation, which is what gives the universe the specific background noise scientists pick up...basically, it's the hissing sound when you tune your radio or snow on the tv!!

As far as light goes, I'm infinitely fascinated by how you see an object from one angle, then when you move your head, you see it from a different angle without any of the light photons interfering or bouncing off each other! How it works I have no idea, I suppose that some photons do get deflected, but the majority of them end up coming to you...

Oh yeah, extra dimensions...In mathematics, it is easily provable that more dimensions can exist. In fact, maths can prove that an infinite number of dimensions, and therefore universes, exist, it's just that it's a bit hard for us 3D humans to imagine anything more complex :)

[TWTCommish]

I'd be interested to hear about a possible fourth dimension - I don't see how it would work. :D

[Grimey]

I don't think it is possible, but then again, a lot of people 100 years ago probably wouldn't believe in space travel, microwaves, television, remote controls, etc.

[Alec]

I can't believe we are even having this discussion. I travel through time every time I turn on the TV and watch people wear those stupid fashions from the 70's.

[Grimey]

Where'd ol' PacMan, Zephyrus, OG-, and TWTCommish go?

[Dude111]

If you mean will it ever be possible--I doubt it. Just doesn't make sense.Many people think you can GO FORWARD but not BACK Jim... (But if forward motion is possible why not reverse?)

http://www.howstuffworks.com/news-item6.htmThats an INTERESTING ARTICLE!!

Working Link to it > http://web.archive.org/web/20050205200549/http://www.howstuffworks.com/news-item6.htm

[Radu]

I'll let you in on a secret: I'm traveling forward through time right now! In fact, I can even do it faster when I'm traveling.

I'll let you in on another secret: I'm writing this message from the past!

[Frappy]

Hi there,
Time travel is the concept of moving between different points in time in a manner analogous to moving between different points in space, either sending objects (or in some cases just information) backwards in time to some moment before the present, or sending objects forward from the present to the future without the need to experience the intervening period (at least not at the normal rate).