placement of the salad fork

[perfection]

A salad fork (not accompanied by a salad knife) at a place setting is always placed to the right of a plate (its exact positin being determined by whether it is consumed before the main course or after the main course.

However, i was given to understand ifrom aHospitality management lecturer that knives and spoons (that are paired with forks for usuage) are placed on the right hand side of a table place setting (or "a cover" in restauarnt jargon) because most persons are right handed. BY THIS LOGIC SINCE THE ABOVE MENTIONED SALAD FORK (NOT ACCOMPANIED BY A SALAD KNIFE) SHOULD ALSO BE PLACED TO THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF A COVER AS IT IS THIS HAND THAT THE DINER WILL EVENTUALLY TRANSFER THE FORK TO FOR USE IN EATING THE SALAD COURSE.

Please explain this anomaly or the logic behind the existing positioning of this dining table element - the salad fork

[jamesglewisf]

I have never read anywhere that any fork goes on the right side of the place setting. Forks are either on the left, or the dessert fork is above the plate. www.diningetiquette.org

Forks on the left. Knives and spoons on the right. Butter knife on the butter plate. Dessert fork and spoon above the plate.

IMO, the anomaly is that your first statement is incorrect. Salad forks go on the left, not the right.

[perfection]

I agree completely with you jamesglewisf - neither have i read anywhere that the salad fork goes on the right hand side.

But that's exactly my point - its not always about forks on the left and spoons/knives on the right (a seafood fork/oyster fork and snail forks go on the right) - the more relevent point is that when an eating implement is used alone (not in a pair or may i say unpartnered) it is supposed to go on the right hand side as it will be eventually used in a diner's right hand to consume the salad.

Further, i feel that when a salad fork is palced on the right hand side it will be obvious to the diner that it is an unpartnered flatware (as opposed to if it were placed on the left a diner may look for a knife to use with it oin the right and MAY land up using the main curse or other knife)

I completely uderstand what i read on the web but i would like to know what is wrong with my reasoning and whay it should not be the way i said - after all all flatware placement rules are created following the folowing guidelines (i) aesthetics and (ii) guest convenience of reach and handling. Isn't that the real logic why knives are placed on the right anyways?? - so that it may be used by a right handed person in his/her right hand which is the effort hand (as effort is needed to cut) and a fork in the left hand as that is the more delicate and balancing hand for a right handed person?

I am merely counter arguing what i read!

[jamesglewisf]

The main thing wrong with your reasoning is that dining etiquette is not based on your reasoning. It is based on tradition. If you change things because you think it makes more sense, then people who know dining etiquette will be confused because you didn't follow proper etiquette.

When it comes to etiquette, it really doesn't matter what you and I think. It matters what the tradition is. The point of etiquette is to make people feel at ease. They won't feel at ease if they show up and the place settings are not standard. Flatware guidelines are not based upon easthetics and convenience. They are based upon tradition.

[Dude111]

I guess it doesnt really matter as long as the setting looks neat and proper :)

Welcome to Frappydoo Perfection :)

[perfection]

Thanks for the input jameswglewisf
My final comment is in agreement with you that table setting is based on tradition but tradition but there has always been a rationale and logic when the wise old folks decided to do things in a particular way which then stuck and years later became the tradition.

Consider why we horses are mounted from the left hand side - not just tradition but a serious logic behind this tradition
Consider why a salt shaker has less holes than a pepper shaker - a traditional design - yes but a serious logic behind that one too

etc

etc

etc

Anyway i have a friend lecturing in one of the ,ore reknowned catering colleges in the world - i shall check up and confirm the hospitality way of doing this and post back here

[magnolia]

I agree with James. One of the most beautiful elements of etiquette is that so many aspects of it are grounded in tradition and rules. True, this is more accurate in the field of "protocol", where rules are rarely subject to change as opposed to "etiquette", where the rules change with the times (sometimes, not always). As for the fork...I can't imagine going to any moderate to fine dining establishment and ever seeing the fork anywhere but on the left, regardless of whether salad is the main course. As for the "exception" to which the writer refers, the cocktail, oyster, and escargo fork is placed to the right of the knife/spoon and usually resting offset in the soup spoon. The "fish fork" is placed to the left of the dinner and salad forks and is in use when a fish course is presented either as an appetizer or main. There are times when foods are paired as in "surf and turf", when both fish and dinner forks are used. ~ JF - magnoliaetiquette.com

[magnolia]

I might also add, that while I agree with James on the "fork placement", I disagree regarding the placement of the napkin in the chair. I teach my classes to always leave the napkin in the chair when temporarily leaving the table and to the left of place setting when permanently leaving establishment. This is the Silent Service Code that instructs the waiter whether or not you are returning. This is one of those rules however, that if you polled a 1000 etiquette consultants, you would find they are in support of one or the other, depending on how they learned the rule. I never teach leaving a napkin hanging over a chair.