Sin Eaters

CuriousG · 04-21-2004, 09:36 PM

Ok, I just watched "The Order." Has anyone seen this? It's the one with Heath Ledger as a Catholic Priest. To make a long story short, it deals with "sin eaters" who take the burden of one's sins from them before they die, so that they are forgiven. I was trying to find something about this on the internet because I think I've heard of it before, but I got a bunch of different views and ideas on it. Has anyone heard of this and know if it was something that was practiced in the past or maybe even today? I was just curious if anyone had a good link. It just seemed like something interesting, I was flipping through a bible trying to find a reference, but I don't think I'll find anything, I have a "New International Version."

Grimey · 04-22-2004, 10:41 AM

It's just something that is made up. It has nothing to do with the Bible.

The only way you can have your sins forgiven by God is through accepting the fact that Jesus has already taken care of this by dying on the cross to pay the penalty for your sins and rising from the dead to purchase a place for you in heaven.

CuriousG · 04-22-2004, 12:04 PM

Yeah, I know all of that, I'm not saying that these individuals actually were an instrument of religion persay. I'm referring to people actually practicing this idealogy, not that it worked or was common. I have definately heard of sin eaters a few times, usually contained in the history of the Catholic church. I'm not
saying catholics believe in them, condoned them, or are even aware of them. Just that some people may have practiced "sin eating" in the ceremonial sense. I don't believe that it worked, etc. I'm just curious as to this mystery. I couldn't find anything in the bible about it, I don't think there is anything in there regarding these people. It may be referenced in other historic documents though.

jamesglewisf · 04-23-2004, 01:25 AM

I grew up Catholic, but I've never heard of them.

heavyburden · 05-20-2004, 10:09 PM

i to have heard this before i seen that movie,i did some checking on the net and found this http://www.bartleby.com/81/15399.html

and also found this site which is very interesting

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...l&siteid=50082

anyone with more sites to add to wut i already mention above please feel free to list more on this topic

jamesglewisf · 05-21-2004, 12:30 AM

I don't mean to be persnickity, but this is the Bible Q&A forum. "Sin eaters" have absolutely nothing to do with the Bible. This is an interesting topic, but it is about fables and mythology, so I'm going to move it to the Great Debate forum per the guidelines for this forum:

Quote:

This is the place to ask any question you have about the Bible. What does it say about divorce, dinosaurs, pre-marital sex, or dancing? What about children born blind or wars or natural disasters? What do predestination and limited atonement mean?

Any question you have about the Bible is probably not new. If I haven't asked it before myself, I am sure someone else has. So don't be afraid to ask anything.

Some threads might get moved to The Great Debate forum if they aren't really about the Bible or Christianity. Bible Q&A is not the correct forum for debates about religion.

This topic started with a question about sin eaters and the Bible, but now it is progressing to new territory. Again, there's nothing wrong with the topic or anyone's posts. It just doesn't belong in the Bible Q&A anymore.

dogos42 · 07-07-2004, 02:11 PM

SIN-EATER, a man who for trifling payment was believed to take upon himself, by means of food and drink, the sins of a deceased person. The custom was once common in many parts of England and in the highlands of Scotland, and survived until recent years in Wales and the counties of Shropshire and Herefordshire. Usually each village had its official sin-eater to whom notice was given as soon as a death occurred. Heat once went to the house, and there, a stool being brought, he sat down in front of the door. A groat, a crust of bread and a bowl of ale were handed him, and after he had eaten and drunk he rose and pronounced the ease and rest of the dead person, for whom he thus pawned his own soul. The earlier form seems to have been more realistic, the sin-eater being taken into the death-chamber, and, a piece of bread and possibly cheese having been placed on the breast of the corpse by a relative, handed to the sin-eater, who ate it in Plural, the presence of the dead. He was ida. Sindhi. Lahnda. then handed his fee, and at once _-- hustled and thrust out of the house Is huOsi hase amid execrations, and a shower of ,~ua have sticks, cinders or whatever other a hate msiipR we-re h~ndv, Th~ rnstnm of sin-eating is generally supposed to be derived from the scapegoat (q.v.) in Leviticus xvi. 21, 22. A symbolic survival of it was witnessed as recently as 1893 at Market Drayton, Shropshire. After a preliminary service had been held over the coffin in the house, a woman poured out a glass of wine for each bearer and handed it to him across the coffin with a funeral biscuit. In Upper Bavaria sin-eating still survives: a corpse cake is placed on the breast of the dead and then eaten by the nearest relative, while in the Balkan peninsula a small bread image of the deceased is made and eaten by the survivors of the family. The Dutch doed-koecks or dead-cakes, marked with the initials of the deceased, introduced into America in the 17th century, were long given to the attendants at funerals in old New York. The burial-cakes which are still made in parts of rural England, for example Lincolnshire and Cumberland, are almost certainly a relic of sin-eating.

jamesglewisf · 07-09-2004, 01:28 AM

This thread sure is getting a lot of views. We must show up in some search engine somewhere.

theyeti · 07-09-2004, 09:35 AM

wow, 'tis #4 on google.

spirit renewed · 12-19-2004, 06:00 PM

If you like to read, Francine Rivers wrote a book called The Sin Eater. It is a fictional account of a village where this took place, and what happened when the Gospel of Jesus Christ came to the village.

It's not my favorite among her books, but she is an excellent writer, and tackles tough subjects that many Christian writers have skirted around.

CuriousG · 12-20-2004, 08:38 AM

I'll have to take a look at that.

SeanB · 02-11-2005, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuriousG

Ok, I just watched "The Order." Has anyone seen this? It's the one with Heath Ledger as a Catholic Priest. To make a long story short, it deals with "sin eaters" who take the burden of one's sins from them before they die, so that they are forgiven. I was trying to find something about this on the internet because I think I've heard of it before, but I got a bunch of different views and ideas on it. Has anyone heard of this and know if it was something that was practiced in the past or maybe even today? I was just curious if anyone had a good link. It just seemed like something interesting, I was flipping through a bible trying to find a reference, but I don't think I'll find anything, I have a "New International Version."

Leviticus XVI 21-22 the scapegoat, is the passage where sin eaters derive justification... unfortunately this practice died about 30 years ago in Wales, it was only big in England and Scotland in recent past it has been outlawed by the church since the third century. The movie you referred to does offer a fairly accurate picture of what the ritual may have looked like.... Just thought I would let you know where your passage was. Sorry to go in-dept but I study Religious Mythology.

we got rid of the double post... no problemo - yeti

jamesglewisf · 02-11-2005, 11:22 PM

I bet the reason they outlawed it in the church in the third century is that there is no biblical basis for it. Claiming Leviticus 16:21-22 as justification is pretty hilarious. I know you're just telling their justification and not trying to justify it yourself.

Quote:

Leviticus 16:20-22
20 "When he finishes atoning for the holy place and the tent of meeting and the altar, he shall offer the live goat. 21 "Then Aaron shall lay both of his hands on the head of the live goat, and confess over it all the iniquities of the sons of Israel and all their transgressions in regard to all their sins; and he shall lay them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who stands in readiness. 22 "The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to a solitary land; and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.

CuriousG · 02-21-2005, 03:32 PM

I kind of feel the same way about Purgatory. I think the so-called biblical references to Purgatory are a stretch to what the Catholic church claims it to be.

rachbri · 03-14-2005, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesglewisf

I bet the reason they outlawed it in the church in the third century is that there is no biblical basis for it. Claiming Leviticus 16:21-22 as justification is pretty hilarious. I know you're just telling their justification and not trying to justify it yourself.

no the reason they outlawed it was because the catholic church doesn't believe that a man outside of the catholic church can take away anothers sins. the church only believes your sins will be taken away by god. the sin eaters are basicaly taking the sins of the dead or soon to be dead so the dying one can get a free trip to heaven with out having to ask god for forgiveness. in doing so the sin eater will get immortality and live forever or untill he passes the skill of sin eating down to another man.

04-21-2004, 09:36 PM	#1
CuriousG Gigglesnort Charteroo Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 1,130	Sin Eaters Ok, I just watched "The Order." Has anyone seen this? It's the one with Heath Ledger as a Catholic Priest. To make a long story short, it deals with "sin eaters" who take the burden of one's sins from them before they die, so that they are forgiven. I was trying to find something about this on the internet because I think I've heard of it before, but I got a bunch of different views and ideas on it. Has anyone heard of this and know if it was something that was practiced in the past or maybe even today? I was just curious if anyone had a good link. It just seemed like something interesting, I was flipping through a bible trying to find a reference, but I don't think I'll find anything, I have a "New International Version."

04-22-2004, 10:41 AM	#2
Grimey Schnook Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Springfield Posts: 2,163	It's just something that is made up. It has nothing to do with the Bible. The only way you can have your sins forgiven by God is through accepting the fact that Jesus has already taken care of this by dying on the cross to pay the penalty for your sins and rising from the dead to purchase a place for you in heaven. __________________ Stretch

04-22-2004, 12:04 PM	#3
CuriousG Gigglesnort Charteroo Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 1,130	Yeah, I know all of that, I'm not saying that these individuals actually were an instrument of religion persay. I'm referring to people actually practicing this idealogy, not that it worked or was common. I have definately heard of sin eaters a few times, usually contained in the history of the Catholic church. I'm not saying catholics believe in them, condoned them, or are even aware of them. Just that some people may have practiced "sin eating" in the ceremonial sense. I don't believe that it worked, etc. I'm just curious as to this mystery. I couldn't find anything in the bible about it, I don't think there is anything in there regarding these people. It may be referenced in other historic documents though. __________________ "I didn't get where I am today by worrying about what I'd feel like in the morning."

05-20-2004, 10:09 PM	#5
heavyburden Smart Feller Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1	sin eaters i to have heard this before i seen that movie,i did some checking on the net and found this http://www.bartleby.com/81/15399.html and also found this site which is very interesting http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...l&siteid=50082 anyone with more sites to add to wut i already mention above please feel free to list more on this topic

07-07-2004, 02:11 PM	#7
dogos42 Smart Feller Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1	sineater SIN-EATER, a man who for trifling payment was believed to take upon himself, by means of food and drink, the sins of a deceased person. The custom was once common in many parts of England and in the highlands of Scotland, and survived until recent years in Wales and the counties of Shropshire and Herefordshire. Usually each village had its official sin-eater to whom notice was given as soon as a death occurred. Heat once went to the house, and there, a stool being brought, he sat down in front of the door. A groat, a crust of bread and a bowl of ale were handed him, and after he had eaten and drunk he rose and pronounced the ease and rest of the dead person, for whom he thus pawned his own soul. The earlier form seems to have been more realistic, the sin-eater being taken into the death-chamber, and, a piece of bread and possibly cheese having been placed on the breast of the corpse by a relative, handed to the sin-eater, who ate it in Plural, the presence of the dead. He was ida. Sindhi. Lahnda. then handed his fee, and at once _-- hustled and thrust out of the house Is huOsi hase amid execrations, and a shower of ,~ua have sticks, cinders or whatever other a hate msiipR we-re h~ndv, Th~ rnstnm of sin-eating is generally supposed to be derived from the scapegoat (q.v.) in Leviticus xvi. 21, 22. A symbolic survival of it was witnessed as recently as 1893 at Market Drayton, Shropshire. After a preliminary service had been held over the coffin in the house, a woman poured out a glass of wine for each bearer and handed it to him across the coffin with a funeral biscuit. In Upper Bavaria sin-eating still survives: a corpse cake is placed on the breast of the dead and then eaten by the nearest relative, while in the Balkan peninsula a small bread image of the deceased is made and eaten by the survivors of the family. The Dutch doed-koecks or dead-cakes, marked with the initials of the deceased, introduced into America in the 17th century, were long given to the attendants at funerals in old New York. The burial-cakes which are still made in parts of rural England, for example Lincolnshire and Cumberland, are almost certainly a relic of sin-eating.

04-23-2004, 01:25 AM	#4
jamesglewisf Doofus Maximus Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 8,401	I grew up Catholic, but I've never heard of them. __________________ Jim Lewis - Admin Tipping Etiquette Dining Etiquette JamesGLewis.com iPhone Tip Guide Movies Without Nudity.com To BE or not to BE

07-09-2004, 01:28 AM	#8
jamesglewisf Doofus Maximus Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 8,401	This thread sure is getting a lot of views. We must show up in some search engine somewhere. __________________ Jim Lewis - Admin Tipping Etiquette Dining Etiquette JamesGLewis.com iPhone Tip Guide Movies Without Nudity.com To BE or not to BE

07-09-2004, 09:35 AM	#9
theyeti WaffyDaffy Charteroo del norte Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Minnesota USA Posts: 2,327	wow, 'tis #4 on google. __________________ "...If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake." -Thomas Jefferson ~~~

12-19-2004, 06:00 PM	#10
spirit renewed Woopdeedoo Charteroo Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: in the Sonshine Posts: 118	If you like to read, Francine Rivers wrote a book called The Sin Eater. It is a fictional account of a village where this took place, and what happened when the Gospel of Jesus Christ came to the village. It's not my favorite among her books, but she is an excellent writer, and tackles tough subjects that many Christian writers have skirted around. __________________ Sanity is very rare; every man almost, and every woman, has a dash of madness.--Ralph Waldo Emerson

12-20-2004, 08:38 AM	#11
CuriousG Gigglesnort Charteroo Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 1,130	I'll have to take a look at that. __________________ "I didn't get where I am today by worrying about what I'd feel like in the morning."

02-21-2005, 03:32 PM	#14
CuriousG Gigglesnort Charteroo Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 1,130	I kind of feel the same way about Purgatory. I think the so-called biblical references to Purgatory are a stretch to what the Catholic church claims it to be. __________________ "I didn't get where I am today by worrying about what I'd feel like in the morning."