Is alcoholism a Disease?

[blinc]

This topic was brought up in the homosexuality thread - and since it's an interesting topic in it's own right, thought I'd start a thread about it. Here's what's been said so far (and I do apologize if I've missed anyone's comments):

Nudnik
quote: The analogy is wrong. Alcoholics do not make a choice. They wish they could. Alcoholism is a inheritable) disease, it's not a moral flaw.

TTP
quote:
It is not a moral flaw, I'll agree there. A choice is made somewhere though for an alcoholic, and the choice has to be made to quit. I know far too well about the 'gene' for alcoholism, which I believe could exist. Heck I probably have it, just like my father and grandfather, who knows? I am making the choice to not drink though, and so is my father now.

TWTCommish
quote:
I'm sorry, but referring to is a disease is inaccurate. If I get a cold, it's from a virus I didn't know was there - I couldn't see it, and unless I was amazingly negliant, it isn't my fault in any way whatsoever - I had basically no say over whether or not I got it.

An alcoholic, while I do sympathize with them, made the chocie to drink every single bottle of beer. It is not a disease if you purposely do things which give you it!

Now, is it a moral flaw? No: it is a human flaw. I have different flaws - thankfully, one of them is not an intense desire for alcohol.

Moral flaw and "disease" are both very inaccurate.

I do not believe in necessarily a special gene - just a series of genes that lead to a bit of pre-disposition to addiction.

Hey: I am pre-disposed to lose my temper, but you'll never hear people defending me, saying that I have a disease. Here's a better example of a disease: a chemical imbalance that causes chronic depression.


keithster
quote:
It's true. An alcoholic does make a choice. Yes, there's the addictive nature which is extremely difficult to overcome. But if you ask any alcoholic who is dry, they'll tell you that there was a decision to straighten out. We aren't animals.

[blinc]

This is a subject that's also close to me... and you know, even after having went through a long battle with alcoholism myself, I couldn't tell you if it was or wasn't a "disease". I do know that for years I wanted to quit, but couldn't beat that addiction... but thankfully finally won out, years ago. Yes, I do believe it is an addiction - like any other drug. I do also believe there is some genetic predisposition, that makes one person more susceptible to becoming addicted to alcohol then other persons. I honestly don't know any more then that. If you type in "Is Alcoholism a disease"? in any search engine, you'll get page after page of conflicting views. However, I did find these two articles rather interesting:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.american-book.com/Articles/arpratt1.htm

Is Alcoholism a Disease?

Disease: 1. Morbus; illness; sickness; an interruption, cessation, or disorder of body functions, systems, or organs, 2. A disease entity characterized usually by at least two of these criteria: a recognized etiologic agent (or agents), an identifiable group of signs and symptoms, or consistent anatomical alterations.

From: Stedman’s Medical Dictionary. 24th Edition. Pg. 403.

Is alcoholism a disease? With a specific set of symptoms, most notably an uncontrollable craving of alcohol whose exact etiology is unknown but is reproducible from one afflicted person to another, as well as the other symptoms and signs listed above; and with the definition of a disease is clearly spelled as having identifiable and consistent symptoms, it would appear that alcoholism is indeed a disease and needs to be treated as such. It is time to stop the prejudice that society directs at these people, and treat it for what it is, a disease rather than a spiritual deficiency.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.gmu.edu/facstaff/facultyf...1/alcohsm.html

"In 1956 the American Medical Association decided that alcoholism is a disease, however more than 30 years later this is still debated in certain circles."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This story then goes on to discuss genetic studies and biological marker studies that have been done. Interestingly enough, twins - seperated at birth, one placed in a home where alcohol abuse is evident and one not, the twins developed alcohol dependencies. Interesting, but definitely not conclusive proof.

I thought it fascinating that even after 30 years have gone by, since the AMA decided it was indeed a disease, even they are still having debates about it!

[TWTCommish]

I don't think the definitions there can truly hold water. The reason it's not an accurate way to describe it is because of the things it implies.

A disease implies no fault on the person who has it - people are usually fawned over when sick - it's not their fault, in almost every single case. A sickness has befallen them that they cannot really be held responsible for.

Obviously, it's not the same with drugs, alcohol, fattening foods, or a bad temper. I only hear this "disease" thing with the first two, though.

[blinc]

Interesting point TWT. It was not so long ago - before epilepsy was proven to be a disease - people thought the person afflicted with that disease, was actually posessed by an evil demon or spirit... they were shunned by society for being weak morally and spiritually. Now that it's been proven to be a disease, these people are no longer thought to be weak... much like alcoholics are thought to be weak nowdays. I'm not trying to debate one side or the other of the issue - because in all honesty I can't decide myself, which side of the fence I'm on, in regards to this issue. Just thought it a timely point to bring up.

[TWTCommish]

I understand - people used to use bloodletting to cure diseases.

I don't see the same potential for error here - it is obviously a fact that people choose to drink or not - no doubt about that. Some have a harder time than others, but it's all a choice.

That's one established fact. Another established fact is that disease, to most people, implies something involuntary that cannot be helped.

Between those two established facts, I think it's obvious. The potential for me to be mistaken 100 years from now exists, but in this case, what would it take?

It would likely take some sort of evidence that our pre-disposition to things makes it so that we can, realistically, NOT resist them for any extended period of time - which I don't think it anywhere near the case.

[Military Mom]

So far, everyone has had very strong, interesting points!

I think the thing that bothers people the most about Alcoholism being defined as a disease is the connotation that "disease" carries with it. Like TWT says, that implies a lack of responsibility on the part of the alcoholic - that their situation was thrust upon them from years of bad genes and a rough life and that to continue drinking past a point of reasonableness is not a personal choice.

Phew. There is so much I have to say about this whole subject. I, too have had close, personal involvement with the disorder (we can all agree it is a disorder, right?). It is easier to count the number of people in my family who are NOT alcoholics. I am lucky enough that my mom isn't, but my dad is, as is/were both my Grandfathers and one Grandma. I monitor myself very closely as well! My family has been swamped in pain and dysfunctionality (as have countless other families) because of the drinking. Even as a young child I can recall wondering why these people continued to drink when they knew what trouble it would make them cause.

I understand better now the call of a craving, being addicted to cigarettes. It becomes very difficult to master that craving when one is used to having indulged it repeatedly for so many years. It is also understandable that one gets to a point where the drinking becomes more important than anything else - that it is physically necessary to have the substance in the body or else withdrawl begins. But it's a long time getting there. And I still hold the people I know responsible for the pain that their habit has caused. I watch them bring the bottle to the mouth, even those who full well know what the consequence will be. They just don't care anymore, or never really did. They aren't stopping long enough to figure out what is going thru their minds at the time - all they seek is escape - escape being far easier than introspection - oh god the pain of THAT. I feel like saying GET A GRIP (yes I am shouting - you would too!) and control yourself! Put it down, walk away, get a life!

I also find it ironic that as part of our nation's most well known recovery group - AA - that part of the healing involves declaring "This addiction is not my fault." Maybe once that burden of personal responsibility is eased off their shoulders, then they can begin to focus on stopping - now that this thing isn't their fault. Hey, emphesema is a disease that is quite often caused by an addiction that we are finding out today (thanks to some lawsuits) isn't people's fault either.

It may be harsh, but I have very little or no sympathy for an alcoholic. I also don't feel sorry for drug addicts or somkers. We got ourselves here. And it's so like today's society to place the blame elsewhere.

This post is fraught with sarcasm and anger, something we are trying to avoid here at FD. Blinc, I feel for you in your struggle - please, please know that none of this is directed at you. I have years of pain that I have been carrying around becasue of this so-called disease that is no one's fault. I cannot accept that definition because I have seen different. Believe me, I have read the literature - the Big Book, the Twelve Steps etc. The only thing I have ever read that makes this disorder come into focus is the Rational Recovery book. It's been said that you have to BE alcoholic to truly understand his plight. Why? I've seen it in so many forms, I think I understand it well enough, thank you.

More to follow when I catch my breath.

Blinc, I may have a lot of anger, but you didn't cause it. I do appreciate the risk you have taken in this self-disclosure. I admire your strength and will in beating that craving day after day. I had no idea. I veiw you in a new light now, and with a deeper respect. I think you can handle what I have had to say here, and know I do not mean to be hurtful. "Good job" is too superficial for what I mean to say.

mm

[blinc]

I don't take it personally MM. If anything - there's a lot of what you said that I agree with. Boy, think we might both get in hot water with this one... but the reason AA didn't help me, is because there was too much self-sympathy there for me to stomach. As you said, blaming a "disease" instead of taking responsibility for your own actions... well, for me - it didn't sit right. I only went to a couple AA meetings and I just couldn't stomach it. I don't mean to insult the thousands of people that it has helped, it's, I guess, that on a personal level, I couldn't go that route. It also may be that for some people, as you said - being able to blame it on something else, other then themselves allows them to take the first step away from that bottle - if it works... great! I do know, that at some point through the AA plan, a person is asked to account for everything they've done wrong to others... which I think is a great healing step, in helping the pain inflicted on those who had to suffer while watching the alcoholic destroy themselves, and the hurt it caused those people who loved them.

When I say, I don't know if it's a disease or not... I really don't! Maybe there is a "disease" factor that makes it harder for some people to give it up then others... but as TWT so aptly put it - this disease has a choice. A choice in the fact that by stopping drinking, they can halt the "disease" in it's tracks. Not an easy choice by any means, because alcohol addiction is horribly hard to shake. But, in the end, only the person who is addicted to it, can make the decision of whether or not picking up that bottle, is worth the pain and damage it is doing to themselves... but even worse, to the people that love them. It does bother me when I hear people describe alcoholics as being weak people... if they only knew the struggles to stay away from the stuff, the self loathing that's involved when you find, once again you couldn't. That bothers me. For me, after being an alcoholic for too many years to even want to remember - the end came when I was so thoroughly sick of myself.. of what I was doing, of being hungover every morning and sick of the pain I was causing others, that death was almost preferable to picking up that bottle again.

As much as this may be hard for some to swallow... (no pun intended) I broke down and cried one night at the mess I had made of my life, at how sick of it all I was and asked for help... didn't really know who I was asking, but was aiming the general plea *up there*. God, if you will... Jesus... an angel... someone. Whether it was my own inner strength that came shining through or maybe even it was God - something happend. I got help from somewhere or something. For two solid weeks after that night - I didn't have the slightest craving for a drink. No withdrawals... a little miracle if you will, considering the number of years I was drunk. For those of you who might want to whap me upside the head because I still have doubts about God... well, just call me hard-headed, ok? It was long enough for me to break my addiction and get my life back... and I'm so very thankful for that, because I know now, I know in my heart, I would either be dead or insane right now if I hadn't stopped.

*whew* Guess it's a night for jabbering huh? No worries MM - I'm not one to shy away from taking the responsibilities that my own actions caused. I'm just not also ready to discount the possiblity that someday this addiction may be labeled as a "disease". Whatever it is - I hope others find a way to get away from alcohol... it's a brand new world full of hope, once they do get away.

[jamesglewisf]

This is such a great discussion. Thanks everyone for posting.

[Mickyhoo]

I do not even think disorder is a good word to use.. I hate to say this... but I think addiction is a human weakness.

BUT (I was shouting to be heard over all the reactions that statement got).. humans have weaknesses.. I never said that a weakness is bad. Until we realize what our weaknesses are we cannot work on them.

If you are a basketball player and you weakness is rebounds, you work on that. Does that weakness make you less of a person? No

My two worst weaknesses are my temper, and putting my mouth in motion before my brain is even on.

My temper is tied into chronic depression, for which I take meds. But meds are not the whole answer. I have to work on it each and every day.

My mouth (and keyboard!!) I work on constantly. (with very little success, but hey, I keep trying)

I grew up with 2 alcholic parents, and could *very* easily cross the line. When I do have a drink, I want another. And then another and another. I have to catch myself. Now that may be fear of turning out just like my folks, but that fear stops me from crossing the line. (that is not to say I have never gotten drunk, just that they are few and far between.. and very far behind me now)

Now to another kind of alcholic, those who have other problems and "self-medicate". Many alcholics have major depression, and other illnesses that are there before they start abusing alchohol. They start drinking/drugging to hide the pain. Most of these people need to have underlieing cause treated, or they will almost never succeed in kicking thier addiction.
That is why so many rehabs have "dual-diagnosis" programs. (Dual diagnosis is the term for with addictions and mental illness.) Depending on what study you read, anywhere from 40 to 80% of alcholics have major depression or bipolar disorder.

I personally hate the stigma attached to mental illness. Most people would rather be an addict than to be considered mentally ill.

[keithster]

Originally posted by Military Mom
I also find it ironic that as part of our nation's most well known recovery group - AA - that part of the healing involves declaring "This addiction is not my fault." Maybe once that burden of personal responsibility is eased off their shoulders, then they can begin to focus on stopping - now that this thing isn't their fault. Hey, emphesema is a disease that is quite often caused by an addiction that we are finding out today (thanks to some lawsuits) isn't people's fault either.

I believe the first step is to admit powerlessness over the addition. That's a very different thing than saying "It's not my fault," which is a victim mentality. I think we've got too many victims in the country already.

One of the steps is making a decision to turn my life over to God, if I'm not mistaken. Again, a decision. No one heals without making a decision. You can be in therapy for your entire life without making progress. Only a decision to change and the willingness to do what's necessary will be the catalyst.

It could be someone's upbringing that got them to the point of an addiction, and there is some healing in recognizing that a person was raised by wolves, so to speak. But at some point, a person is an adult and is responsible for their life.

I know about this first hand. I went through a couple of years of blaming my parents for my problems, the "It's not my fault" defense. It wasn't productive at all.

[blinc]

and as requested, am copying them into here, from this thread: http://www.frappydoo.com/forum/showt...8&pagenumber=2


Some are born with the gene, others can enjoy drinking and are able to stop at will. See below.
THE DOPAMINE D2 RECEPTOR AS A CANDIDATE GENE FOR ALCOHOLISM
http://javelin.commed.unsw.edu.au/karen/thesis/
NEW YORK, Nov 25 (Reuters Health) -- Studies in mice suggest that a specific gene may influence an individual's susceptibility to alcoholism.

Recent research provides "very good evidence that alcohol consumption and resistance" are related to the genetically-directed production of a brain chemical called neuropeptide Y (NPY), according to study lead author, Dr. Todd Thiele of the University of Washington in Seattle.

Thiele cautioned, however, that alcoholism is likely to be caused by more than just simple genetics. "The bottom line is that alcoholism is going to be influenced by a variety of factors, and the more factors you have against you, the more likely you are to suffer from alcoholism," he said.

http://www.personalmd.com/news/a1998112507.shtml

[Nudnik]

TWTC, you are right, one can COMPLETELY stop drinking. I’ve never heard of it, I mean I've never heard of anyone quitting on his own. Actually, medical definition of alcoholism includes “inability of quitting despite grave physical, physiological, psychological and social consequences”. People lose health, mental abilities, families, friends, work, become homeless, but continue to drink. An alcoholic cannot not to drink, by definition he cannot stop drinking until the alcohol is available or until he becomes drunk (unconscious), during one session or as a way of life. Alcohol becomes a necessary substance for his organism to function: without it an alcoholic becomes sick and might die. If this is not a disease, I do not know what is.

[keithster]

There is the physical addiction, the physical need for the substance. And, (please tell me if I'm wrong) I think there's also the psychological addiction, the deep, deep belief that one won't be able to cope with life and life may end without it.

An alcoholic friend has a daughter with a good head on her shoulders. She had a chat with her Mom a while back. "Let's see. You're an alcoholic. Dad's an alcoholic. I don't stand much of a chance, do I Mom? I don't think I'll be taking a drink." I pray to God that she can keep that promise.

[TWTCommish]

What needs to be remebered, however, is that these people were not born addicted - they took the first drink, and the second, and all the other dozens it took them to become addicted.

Alright, I'm going to stop dancing around the subject and simply get some straight answers. If you believe that alcoholism is a disease, answer these questions:

- Is losing your temper and yelling at everyone a disease?
- Is eating huge amounts of food and becoming over weight a disease?
- Is addiction to drugs a disease?
- If the person with a temper from the first question loses it and kills someone, is it STILL a disease?

As you can see, with alcoholism as a disease, the lines of responsibility are heavily blurred. Where is the line drawn?

You are not born with the addiction - you are born with a predisposition to become addicted. Everyone makes the choice to drink. Almost no one is actually forced. I'm sorry, but it is an exscuse.

The only way it can be called a disease is if it is proven to be impossible for the person to resist it at first, and impossible for them to stop - and no, it is not impossible.

You imply it's impossible for them to stop by definition - but people do it all the time, and one of the first things they do is realize that they have a problem that they need to fix, and not make exscuses for.

[Nudnik]

TWTC: What needs to be remebered, however, is that these people were not born addicted
Of course, by definition. But most people are born in such way that they can handle alcohol. i.e. they usually can stop during the drinking session or they can live for a long time without a drink. Some alcoholics’ children, like Keith’s friend’s daughter, know about the danger of that first drink, but most do not. Or they say: “I will be able to handle my drinks”.

I do not understand what your questions have to do with A., but I will abswer them, anyway:
Is losing your temper and yelling at everyone a disease?
Usually not. Sometimes it is.

Is eating huge amounts of food and becoming over weight a disease?
usually not. Sometimes it is.

Is addiction to drugs a disease?
Yes. According to current medical consensus, many substances, such as nicotine, morphine, caffeine, cocaine, barbiturates, make everyone addictive. Some are more addictive than others, but no special predisposition is required (unlike the discussed A.) Individual susceptibility also varies. E.g., some people can quit smoking on their own (still takes an effort, it’s never easy, for nobody), while others cannot for years (or never), despite of kind of help.

If the person with a temper from the first question loses it and kills someone, is it STILL a disease?
I do not get it. In common life, killing another person called homicide, not a disease. Please explain what you meant.

As you can see, with alcoholism as a disease, the lines of responsibility are heavily blurred. Where is the line drawn?
Again, I am not sure I know what “lines”. There is “acute alcoholism” or common drunkenness, when one occasionally is intoxicated. If police, etc. becomes involved, it means that repetition is unlikely. Most people drink alcohol, sometimes even on a daily basis, and never get in trouble. “Chronic alcoholism” involves continued excessive intake of A. leading to a number of physical, mental and social conditions. Despite everything, the person is unable to stop and actually cannot survive without alcohol.
I'm sorry, but it is an exscuse.
You meant “it is NOT an excuse”. Very few people see their alcoholic parents and decide “to never touch the stuff”. Most think that they will be able to handle it. Some are apparently born addicted (fetal alcohol syndrome). Some cases are spontaneous, i.e. people become chronic alcoholics when it’s too late; they have normal parents.

You imply it's impossible for them to stop by definition - but people do it all the time,…
You mean people like president Bush? He said that he made conscious decision to never drink. And apparently have had no trouble staying sober. He is not an alcoholic. We are talking about alcoholics here. Do not confuse them with us.